ASHRAE Journal - November 2021 - 36

ROUNDTABLE
Rodgers: I still think there's a gap. These guys have
to have their EPA certificate. But it's usually just that
installer's owner that goes out there, then everybody
under him that works for him, that actually goes out
there and does the work. They rely on his certificate to
go buy refrigerant, to go buy equipment. I think there's
going to be that gap. Are the owners of these installers
and their workforce out there, that actually do the dayto-day,
if we still have a gap of those guys being trained?
Kujak: What I have heard is we need training to handle
and service flammable refrigerants, but I am also hearing
we need training on how to install and apply a product
using flammable refrigerants. Earlier, it sounded
like it is all the same but only slightly different when
using flammables, but upon closer inspection, the differences
are quite large. Right?
VerShaw: Well, I think the biggest difference is the
room volume and the releasable charge. The instructions
are going to have to be very clear with good explanation
of what must be done. Every time a company rolls
out a new product that's different, the manufacturer
provides information to the people who are going to
install that new product to make sure it gets installed
properly, like when variable speed systems came out,
with very complicated electronics and control schemes.
We went through that, and it went pretty smoothly, and I
think this will as well.
But yeah, right now I don't think EPA's going to require
additional certification for technicians. We'll see if that
changes. Some states may, but I think, as Rusty mentioned,
there's flammable refrigerant information available
today, and the OEMs will have information on how
to install their products going forward.
Grider: The mitigation practices are what are going
to be key for the industry service techs and most of the
installers to understand. A lot of work has been done
within the last two years harmonizing between UL
60335-2-40 and Standard 15 and Standard 15.2P on
what these mitigation practices are going to be. In a lot
of cases, it should be pretty clear as to what the form of
mitigation is, whether that's a refrigerant detection system,
or some other means such as safety shutoff valves to
control the releasable charge. Or, you've got what would
be considered to be continuous operation of a circulation
fan. But understanding what those mitigations are-
why they're there-will help anybody that's installing.
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ASHRAE JOURNAL ashrae.o rg N O V E M B E R 2021
That gets back to what I think Brian was talking about,
maybe with the gap of just doing some training there. If
you don't understand what the mitigation is, and why
it's being used, it's difficult to understand how it should
be applied.
Kujak: Something I was thinking about just now, we
talk about room area. My house, it's a very open space.
How do you handle all these connected rooms that
might have a hallway?
VerShaw: For residential, that's detailed in Standard
15.2P. If you have a space with no door, it's considered
connected. If you have a door, there are requirements
about the size of the gap under the door. It's all well laid
out. Standard 15.2P covers applications with different
elevations-and when there is an open area on the second
floor that goes to the lower floor. It tells you how to
calculate the maximum charge levels. That's all in there.
Kujak: Do these rules apply to refrigeration products,
and are they the same in UL 60335-2-89 as well?
Grider: Yes.
Kujak: So they have that similar methodology?
Grider: Right.
Rodgers: We tried to copy over as much into the second
edition of UL 60335-2-89 from UL-60335-2-40. Like
I said, we wanted to get the work done in UL-60335-2-40
and not have two different groups trying to do the same
thing.
Grider: Yes, the mitigation requirements implemented
in both standards are similar and both have
requirements for the manufacturer to provide installation
manuals that detail how to apply those mitigations.
These manuals must provide tables and clear guidance
on how to install the product within a defined space
while considering things such as releasable charge, connected
spaces and ventilation.
Kujak: So it's all the same, but now it's more different.
Butsch: Yes. You also have to consider spaces like
walk-in coolers and freezers that have minimum volume
limitations, and that is outlined in the UL 60335-2-89
standard. This minimum volume/intended use will be
marked on the unit and/or included in the installation
instructions.
Kujak: My last question to everybody is the one thing
you want readers to know and remember about flammable
refrigerants?
Tharp: These refrigerants can be safely used. Such
safe use is based upon appropriate preparation, the
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